PHaMTaSTiK

PVP Enhancements & Balancing Feedback

12 posts in this topic

PVP has slowly been dwindling thus it has been difficult to find games.  This thread is to review these scenarios and provide feedback to help enhance or resolve these issues.  Sorry for the formatting the forum does not like the original formatting I used.

The main four issues are:

1.       Low volume of players

2.       Imbalanced heroes, this is a deterrent for rank game play

3.       PVP game duration

4.       Limitation of Hero selection

 

Low Volume of Players

Players are across the global yet we are restricted to play against only our own region.  The lack of players does in each region does not help.

In NA region normal PVP is nonexistent after reset (24:00 PST).  Good luck finding any players after that time to match with.

 

 Suggestion on how to help solve this?

PVP needs to be expanded across regions. 

·         If a NA player is searching for a game at 12:01 AM they can be matched up with EU player that is playing at 9:01 AM.

·         This also helps rank game play.

o   Rank can have multiple rank windows.

     §  For example NA would have 11:00 to 14:00, 19:00 to 23:00 as the standard windows plus the other EU windows.

        ·     Additional time windows would be 17:00 to 20:00 and 2:00 to 6:00.

     §  EU would benefit from additional NA Rank time windows as well.

 

Imbalanced Heroes

For RANK what are the two most imbalanced heroes?  The first is Oma and the second Rurik.

Why are they imbalanced?

1.       Oma

A.      Skill:  It honestly takes no skill to play Oma in rank.  You basically use shield and fear.  This is why you will find high rank players teaming with low rank Oma players to get easy points.  You no longer have to rely on a good third player.

B.      The fear is overpowered even if the host is stunned Oma still has his full capabilities. 

C.      His range projectile makes it nearly impossible to escape when combined with the frost rune.

D.      After the host is killed he still has full health and is difficult to kill and simply hops into another host.

E.       Suggested Options:

     i.      Remove Oma from rank he adds no value to the overall experience.

     ii.      Oma tweaks:

                    1.       Oma should take damage if the host is damage, it’s a symbiotic relationship.  If the host is killed you should have 50% or less HP as well.

                    2.       If the host is stunned Oma should be stunned he should not be able to fear and continue to do damage.

 

2.       Rurik

A.      Skill:  This is the only hero where after you die he still impacts the outcome of the game.

     i.      Ghost should NOT be invincible.

    ii.      Ghost should NOT last the entire duration until the hero is revived.

B.      Suggested Options:

     i.      Make ghost targetable so he can be killed and lower the amount of time.

 

Let the players decide who is imbalanced!

A.      Suggested Options:

a.       Allow each team leader to choose a hero the other team cannot select.  This will help prevent over powered heroes and force players to try other heroes in PVP.  There are other heroes that are decent / good however no one will try them in rank because these two are over powered.

 

PVP Game Duration

Games in Twilight Forest could take upward to 20 minutes.  What happened to Stony Gorge?  It is has been missing for what 9 months?  It’s been so long I’ve lost count.  Does it really take that long to reintroduce a map?

 

Suggested Option:

·         Bring it back even if it is unbalanced let the players decide.

 

Limitation of Hero selection

There are free weekly trial heroes that incentivizes players to play PVP.  There is no real option to truly enjoy PVP without grinding and trying to collect all the heroes.  This may deter players that are only interested in PVP.

Suggested Option:

·         For X amount of diamonds perhaps 50 to 150 a day you can unlock all the heroes and be able to PVP.

 

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@RedPanda 

@Ocho

Feedback?  What is going on in PVP?

AFK in PVP

Another issue is AFK in PVP.  It is quite annoying and we need a deterrent for it.  You can load the game and do not move and still get rewarded points.

Suggested Option:

There should be an option where your teammates can mark you as AFK and if you do not respond within 30 seconds you will get no rewards.

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Some great feedback. Here are a few additional points I think should also be considered-

 

Omaeus - 

I do think Oma is quite powerful and do have some of the same concerns. I agree that Oma should be affected by some if not all CC effects. I do also think that he should be easier to kill when his host is killed. Personally I think a better way to handle this would just be to reduce his base HP. As a hero that ideally never engages an opponent directly, it makes little sense to me that he has a large base HP pool. It would fit with the character more in my opinion to have him be relatively fragile when expelled from his host. You could adjust the percentage of his HP that is given to his host to balance that aspect to still give an appropriate HP buff when As One, but given Omaeus ethereal/behind the scenes nature, it seems odd for him to be so durable. 

One thing that I will say is that I don't think he needs as serious a balancing as Pham states because you have to consider that to utilize him, you're giving up having a third autonomous hero. This means you can't cover as much ground, can't surround enemy heroes as easily, etc. And Oma is fairly useless without his host, so in a 2v2 (2 enemy heroes against Oma + host), if the host is killed, the other team wins that encounter, regardless of if they kill Oma or not. Oma is going to turn tail and run in that scenario and has little ability to continue fighting without his host. 

Your concern about his synergy with Frost rune is valid. Would it be possible to have frost not apply to Omaeus attacks when he's As One?

 

Rurik-

Completely agree with what was said above and want to add something. An additional problem with Ruriks ghost is that if you're attacking a tower and Rurik defends, you can forget taking the tower even if Rurik dies. This is because if you stay and eat Ruriks ghost damage to try to kill the tower, his burn very quickly kills the minions who would tank the tower for you. So you either turn tail and run, leaving the minions who can tank but not kill the tower themselves, or you stay and try to damage the tower yourself, in which case the minions die leaving you able to damage but not tank the tower (especially in addition to the overly strong burn aura). I'm sure you can see the game balance issue when a hero can completely deny destroying a tower just by dying near it. 

 

PvP Game Duration-

I think the easy fix for this would be to speed up the rate at which your power increases in global PvP. Certainly not to the rate that it is in Arena, but currently the power increase is such that even with good play it can be difficult to be anywhere near 100% power after 10 minutes. Either a flat increase in the rate that power increases, or a scaling increase based on the length of the match would help.

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Oh, and I forgot:

AFK in PvP- I agree that there should be a built in report option that not only removes any rewards if the AFK person is prompted that they were reported and doesn't complete any action, but also that prevents them from requeueing for PvP for 20-30 minutes for normal, and potentially longer for ranked. I think the two together would go a long way to discourage people from going AFK in global games. 

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Omaeus

Omaeus + host is not that easy to kill.  If it was that easy to beat you would not see players crying when Omaeus is used for normal PVP.  In rank play it is currently a must if you want to get to Marshall.  

Try going up against a good player with Omaeus.  Not only will they destroy you going 2 vs 2 they will beat you 3 vs 2.  For example I am able to play 3 accounts simultaneously (Viscern + Oma with Hark) versus 3 real players and win matches.  Omaeus with a host will control a lane easily.  You need a good and well coordinated three players to compete without Omaeus and even then one mistake and the match is virtually over.  Omaeus teams typically find a way to win in the end.

When I cannot find a team will simply queue up with my alt account as Oma and play with a random as a third.  The average match would be 15 kills for me with 1 or 2 deaths.   The random player would have to be pretty bad in order for me to lose.

Regarding his HP if you reduce his HP then his value to the host is reduced as well.  Only 20% of his HP is boosted to the host.  It may make more sense to reduce his resistance since he normally does not require it since he is typically in the host.  

PvP Game Duration

I don't have any gripes over the twilight map duration typically the game will be under 10 minutes.  If you have a good team the other team will typically surrender after 5 minutes.  The only long matches are between two good teams and in that case its fun to play it out.  Having that possibility of a long match may deter some players.

We have been missing the stoney gorge map for quite some time which is a quicker map.  When stoney gorge was available there would be barely any games in twilight map.  I would re-introduce that back first before making any changes.

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2 minutes ago, PHaMTaSTiK said:

Omaeus

Regarding his HP if you reduce his HP then his value to the host is reduced as well.  Only 20% of his HP is boosted to the host.  It may make more sense to reduce his resistance since he normally does not require it since he is typically in the host.  

 

Which is why I suggested they could change the percentage conferred onto the host. If for example you reduced his base HP by 50% but changed the transferred amount from 20% to 40% the same base HP would be transferred. Gear would skew it some though, so it would probably have to be 30-35% to account for the extra HP you'd get from gear, but you get the idea.

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I understand what you are suggesting now however based on their implementation mechanism I'm fairly sure there is not a separate algorithm for PVP versus other modes.  Manipulating it that way would only balance PVP and would make him even stronger in the other modes due to gear.

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The main problem is a system of ranks, try to win with the rank of private teams of majors..... They will destroy you with one or two blows, and you will not be able to scratch it...

 

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Reduce the buff bonus with increasing rank, i does not matter against rurik or omaeus , if they have low rank

 

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There is no bonus with increasing rank what are you talking about?  A private and a marshal do the same amount of damage.

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My friend, i notice a difference in the received and dealt damage on the first day of the game...

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If you did not play in the pvp and merged the rank, you are knocked down with one or two skills

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