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KateUpton

Level 45 mostly need DPS

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I love playing tank in any game, but here in CoL after reaching 45 if you're a tank you started to feel unuseful with other tanks ingame mostly parties will just take 1 tank in whole squad. And then filled with damn DPS so starting to get frustrated as I can't join most elite dungeons squad for being full tank. You should not make a tank class for this game if all you need is DPS to finish your raid dungeons.

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How about a full healer? Is it gonna be the same?

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yes, 10man raid only needs 1tank as you have to pass the fury mechanic with enough single target dps..but because there are not enough tank players in the game, you can almost always guarentee a spot in raid when everyone reach lvl45. Same thing with tamer as their buff is much needed in raid. Full healer aka shepherd is always needed, at least 2 spots in a 10man raid.

If you want to participate in most pve contents and you don't have the gold to gear, Shepherd and Tamer are the class for u, all u need to do is stack hp and phy/mag def with some att

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That's why we are able to change between our specs without having to pay or anything, be thankful for that. I don't think i've ever played a MMORPG where more than 2 tanks are ever needed in any dungeon/raid. We haven't even made it to the toughest heroic encounter yet, who knows it might require 2 tanks? 

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Tanks and healers are the most searched classes in any mmorpg, don't get demotivated 

for fas as i'am concerned is kinda hard to find a good tank these days, most are dps...

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1-2 tanks is normal, what needs to happen is boost warrior dps a little - or survivability

right now melee class is suffering from the lack of parties, even in guild the only thing people look for is DPS (aka rangers), since they always have a preferred tank or two ready - which means 90% of the warrior players wont get a chance at high end dungeons

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41 minutes ago, Sai said:

1-2 tanks is normal, what needs to happen is boost warrior dps a little - or survivability

right now melee class is suffering from the lack of parties, even in guild the only thing people look for is DPS (aka rangers), since they always have a preferred tank or two ready - which means 90% of the warrior players wont get a chance at high end dungeons

I think they're pretty good at the moment, they're very very strong in PVP - always topping the charts in DPS just because of their crazy AOE capabilities and chain.

As for PvE dps they're still competing with archers and mystics, infact in our guild/team our warrior is always 1st/2nd in DPS.

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1 hour ago, Jesse said:

I think they're pretty good at the moment, they're very very strong in PVP - always topping the charts in DPS just because of their crazy AOE capabilities and chain.

As for PvE dps they're still competing with archers and mystics, infact in our guild/team our warrior is always 1st/2nd in DPS.

It's not about the individual strong warriors, it's about the general perception of their raiding capabilities.

On raids like fort hero and chimeria, everlush etc, you will only ever see 1-2 warriors because rangers are preferred

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Yea those elite dungeons have perma tank already in raids. Leaves other tank no pt even guild is no use they make perma squad too. switching path not good unless they give us more talent exp and silver to upgrade 2 paths together. Can't blame those perma squad too as we know too many people can't follow strategies in boss raids. 

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Posted (edited)

Bottom line:

Every hero or team raid is ideally always searching for:

  • 1 or 2 warriors
  • 1 to 3 healers depending on the boss
  • the rest is Rangers for DPS (no, DPS mages and warriors are not en par with Rangers)

How on earth is that balanced?

Ranger even is the easiest class as well. So ofc ppl will just play Rangers then.

 

And I am not talking about random parties, I mean ideal party builds of players who know their roles so only a minimal amount of duplicate roles are needed.

 

@OchoIs there anything planned to balance that? High level ppl are just extremely annoyed by that as far as I can tell from chat and guild talk.

Mystic's Verify Spirit doesn't even have any use in the whole game atm :-(

Edited by sicut
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3 hours ago, sicut said:

Bottom line:

Every hero or team raid is ideally always searching for:

  • 1 or 2 warriors
  • 1 to 3 healers depending on the boss
  • the rest is Rangers for DPS (no, DPS mages and warriors are not en par with Rangers)

How on earth is that balanced?

Ranger even is the easiest class as well. So ofc ppl will just play Rangers then.

 

And I am not talking about random parties, I mean ideal party builds of players who know their roles so only a minimal amount of duplicate roles are needed.

 

@OchoIs there anything planned to balance that? High level ppl are just extremely annoyed by that as far as I can tell from chat and guild talk.

Mystic's Verify Spirit doesn't even have any use in the whole game atm :-(

 

this is a balancing issue which will need to go through various stages of approval and maybe re-design - which is fine. but the problem is by the time some action is taken i fear there will be 90% scouts on the server...

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Yeah, agreed...maybe some words that it is being acknowledged and worked upon then? Just to ease our small and feeble minds^^

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Balance is always being worked on, that never changes. Similarly there are always options that are more popular at a given time, and options that are underutilized. That being said, there is often uses for specific paths that is not immediately apparent, so never discount anything as useless.

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Actually boss fury forces every elite raids to go all out DPS rather than more strategic play. So boss fury messes party set up

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4 hours ago, KateUpton said:

Actually boss fury forces every elite raids to go all out DPS rather than more strategic play. So boss fury messes party set up

Besides having 1 tank and 2 healers, rest being dps that's a quite common set up for every raid in COL at the moment.

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9 hours ago, KateUpton said:

Actually boss fury forces every elite raids to go all out DPS rather than more strategic play. So boss fury messes party set up

 

4 hours ago, Jesse said:

Besides having 1 tank and 2 healers, rest being dps that's a quite common set up for every raid in COL at the moment.

Full ack on both of that.

@Ocho As they both already mentioned, thx to Fury the game heavily forces rangers and DPS. The more tanks and healers u need/have, the higher the chance to fail instantly thx to fury mode. So I have to disagree with you and say that even most paths are useless and disregarded at heroic raids :-(

Dont get me wrong, Im having a blast there. But its a big design problem that certain classes only work in pvp (Verity again) and not at all in the PvE portion of the game. There is literally not one use case for that class in the whole game since there is no situation where multiple mobs are that dangerous to need a Verity mage.

If that comes later, its a design problem again, that ppl couldnt know earlier and spec for it.

Just honest feedback here, so dont get me wrong. We all want a great global start ;-)

 

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I think warriors (exe) and rangers are on par with each other dps-wise. The problem is that most of the warriors in the game don't optimise their DPS by using a bad rotation, like how many do you see using chains? Chains is a taunt and does barely any damage but nearly every exe warrior is using it (a lot of faulty advice being given out on race chat). A lot use totem too, which is bad for dps. I have a scout aswell and realised most of their skills can hold up some decent DPS, so even if your rotation isn't the best, you can do decent damage. That's the difference between rangers and warriors.

The only warriors I know that use a correct rotation completely outdps rangers, one example being Zeus. Come see us in a hero fort raid as the only two exe's in a group with 20+ rangers and see us continously claim a spot in top 3-4 DPS (a lot of people equally geared and skilled too, and us exe's losing lots of dps moving).

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15 hours ago, Essantra said:

I think warriors (exe) and rangers are on par with each other dps-wise. The problem is that most of the warriors in the game don't optimise their DPS by using a bad rotation, like how many do you see using chains? Chains is a taunt and does barely any damage but nearly every exe warrior is using it (a lot of faulty advice being given out on race chat). A lot use totem too, which is bad for dps. I have a scout aswell and realised most of their skills can hold up some decent DPS, so even if your rotation isn't the best, you can do decent damage. That's the difference between rangers and warriors.

The only warriors I know that use a correct rotation completely outdps rangers, one example being Zeus. Come see us in a hero fort raid as the only two exe's in a group with 20+ rangers and see us continously claim a spot in top 3-4 DPS (a lot of people equally geared and skilled too, and us exe's losing lots of dps moving).

 

i would say quite a few warriors do proper rotation, but the playerbase mindset is ranger > warrior, hence the issue getting into parties

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Posted (edited)

On 5/21/2017 at 0:41 PM, Essantra said:

I think warriors (exe) and rangers are on par with each other dps-wise. The problem is that most of the warriors in the game don't optimise their DPS by using a bad rotation, like how many do you see using chains? Chains is a taunt and does barely any damage but nearly every exe warrior is using it (a lot of faulty advice being given out on race chat). A lot use totem too, which is bad for dps. I have a scout aswell and realised most of their skills can hold up some decent DPS, so even if your rotation isn't the best, you can do decent damage. That's the difference between rangers and warriors.

The only warriors I know that use a correct rotation completely outdps rangers, one example being Zeus. Come see us in a hero fort raid as the only two exe's in a group with 20+ rangers and see us continously claim a spot in top 3-4 DPS (a lot of people equally geared and skilled too, and us exe's losing lots of dps moving).

I think that warriors and rangers are pretty much on par as well. I am level 45 and my Exe is only at level 31 but yet I am usually in the top 3 DPS in a 10 man level 45 raid. I am leveling up my Exe mainly because I am absolutely sick of being in raids where we wipe due to fury. I wont say that I do godly DPS but I think its quite good for an Exe at level 31 (I do about 2.5k\s on 10 man boss fights).

I think its still early stages right now and one thing that we will never know is if warriors are actually specing their equipment correctly. I have dismantled plenty of equipment where the assess is much higher than what I am currently using, this is solely because int, m.crit and etc are useless to me.

On 5/22/2017 at 4:00 AM, Sai said:

 

i would say quite a few warriors do proper rotation, but the playerbase mindset is ranger > warrior, hence the issue getting into parties

You are correct on this, despite that I usually out DPS 80% of the rangers (well, rangers that I have faced anyway) out there, there has been times when I join and quickly get kicked out because I am a warrior when they need strong DPS, and this is without me having a chance to show how much DPS I can pump out.

Edited by Jetling

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Tanks and healers are the most important roles in a raid and then comes the dps. If the tank dies the party wipes....same with healers. While i agree that the need of only 1 tank in a 10 or 40 man raid is troublesome for the tanks progress, I dont think there is any other way. You cant have a raid with 5 tanks....maybe an off tank or two in some games but thats it. As a tank you need to be available for your guild and keep up with the progress. Its not for those who play casually. Raids require lots of practice and wipes before u eventually get the kill so if u want to be invited to parties u kinda need to make a name for urself as "experienced" or "skilled".  Also keep in mind that a guild of 200 members should be easily able to make more than 1 team for heroics and raids. Yes the analogy of 1 tank per 7 dps for 10 man and 1 tank per 35 dps in 40 man is really dissapointing, but it doent mean u cant progress.

Regarding exe warriors even though its harder for them to dps and follow tactics at the same time (run for the golden spore, go get into the sphere, run away from boss etc.) i always see them in top3 dps chart and they are always the last to die on boss fights....the only problem is that you cant have many of them in the same group cause most bosses have ground dmg skills which become harder to avoid the more people are stacked on boss. 

Just my thoughts

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Posted (edited)

again, it's not so much about the actual facts anymore.

sure, exec can be on par with ranger in terms of performance, but how many party leads are willing to take them?

when people ask for DPS it's not mages, not execs, what they mean is scouts.

until the mindset has been changed from the player base execs will continue to struggle in finding parties, people have it in their heads that scouts make raids easier (sure,  in some cases that's true)

fun note on that, warriors are actually *more* reliable in harder raids due to their higher HP. where the same level scout may not meet the 8-9k HP requirement, most warriors can hit that quite comfortably. ofc, the underlying assumption is the exec knows what he's doing

Edited by Sai

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3 hours ago, Sai said:

again, it's not so much about the actual facts anymore.

sure, exec can be on par with ranger in terms of performance, but how many party leads are willing to take them?

when people ask for DPS it's not mages, not execs, what they mean is scouts.

until the mindset has been changed from the player base execs will continue to struggle in finding parties, people have it in their heads that scouts make raids easier (sure,  in some cases that's true)

fun note on that, warriors are actually *more* reliable in harder raids due to their higher HP. where the same level scout may not meet the 8-9k HP requirement, most warriors can hit that quite comfortably. ofc, the underlying assumption is the exec knows what he's doing

Totally agree about the players mindset in general. 

As i see it the only advantage rangers have over exec warriors is that they scatter around while warriors need to stack on boss making it harder to avoid some boss skills. Thays why u cant have 5 warrior dps in the same group, but having 2 or maybe 3 is actually really good since as u said they have way better survivability.

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Mages get auto put in groups as heals and dps tanks get auto put in as tanks. Because you cannot select your role in auto grouping ahead of time, it perpetuates the attitude you see above.

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14 hours ago, Fast said:

Mages get auto put in groups as heals and dps tanks get auto put in as tanks. Because you cannot select your role in auto grouping ahead of time, it perpetuates the attitude you see above.

You can actually pick how many tanks, output and healers you want in your team in the team creation page. However, sometimes it doesnt work since there are paths that falls in the gray area like Fangs.

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12 hours ago, Jetling said:

You can actually pick how many tanks, output and healers you want in your team in the team creation page. However, sometimes it doesnt work since there are paths that falls in the gray area like Fangs.

 

Actually it doesnt work at all....I am a tank and i select 1 tank 3 dps 1 healer and it auto joins another tank warrior....not exec but tank just like me. Same with healers, it auto joins any mage regardless the path they use.

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