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Two Minds

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Increases ATK

Does that symbolize Attack?

do they  mean damage?

Which can correlate to healing for Shepard?

 

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8 hours ago, JoySkeet said:

 

 

Nice list.

Seen it before.

There us no mention of ATK in table, only one mention in responses which doesn't officially clarify exactly what it means.

Let's try this again.

What is ATK?

If it's Attack..... I don't see an Attack stat.

So, does ATK represent attack which really means damage?

If it's Attack... Why didn't it just say Attack... And if Attack really means Damage Stat... Why doesn't it just say damage.

Now... I should assume that this 20% effect that applies to ATK=Attack=Damage would correlate to my heals... But at this point, I'm double checking considering the elaborate cluster this item is presenting with its vague triple meaning non stat description.

I didn't want to waste resources on these items to find out that something that means something else that really means something else doesn't do what..... I thought it meant.

 

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Its a confusing subject because getting talgar gives me Attack+2 but i also get magic attack +2 when using the token. On the other hand as a healer normal attack = heal thus by upgrading Rune -> Reliability - Stability which says  Increase normal attack's damage by X.XX% there should have been increase in healing but tests done by some healers apparently it does not. Source below. Thus its not clear if two minds on an aggregate will increase heal by 5% but certainly will increase dps by 5%. Regardless will get the set myself when enough tokens/rep to test it out.

 

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Do note that Two Minds works off some BASE value, not the total attack granted from gear.

In most cases it grants about +100 or more high-end instead of the +250 and up most people were expecting.

It's still a DPS boost, but it's not really to die for.

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16 hours ago, Primaeva said:

Do note that Two Minds works off some BASE value, not the total attack granted from gear.

In most cases it grants about +100 or more high-end instead of the +250 and up most people were expecting.

It's still a DPS boost, but it's not really to die for.

That. And since it lowers your minimum attack you will now hit the lower end of your maximum attack way more often. Have yet to try out the bonus but most people in my guild also say it is not as good as expected to be.

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Yeah, I'm using it. Seems like there is a dps boost but it is really not that big. I feel a little disappointed because I was expecting a lot.

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5 hours ago, Ill said:

That. And since it lowers your minimum attack you will now hit the lower end of your maximum attack way more often. Have yet to try out the bonus but most people in my guild also say it is not as good as expected to be.

 

Humm, "way more often" seems a little unscientific. It will hit the new high and a new loe equally. It will be a boost on average as the set shifts the distribution curve to the right.

 

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10 minutes ago, Primaeva said:

 

Humm, "way more often" seems a little unscientific. It will hit the new high and a new loe equally. It will be a boost on average as the set shifts the distribution curve to the right.

 

Unfortunately rng is not equally.

What this set does is increase the range of your att/dmg whatever you want to call it. It is rng on which part of the att spectrum your attack will choose.

So if you are having bad luck then your dps will decrease. If you're having good luck than your dps will increase. It is all RNG. 

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55 minutes ago, Agoraphobia said:

Unfortunately rng is not equally.

What this set does is increase the range of your att/dmg whatever you want to call it. It is rng on which part of the att spectrum your attack will choose.

So if you are having bad luck then your dps will decrease. If you're having good luck than your dps will increase. It is all RNG. 

Correct. My dps is variable now.

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@RedPanda, can you have a clear answer if they set is suppose to increase your attack by 25% from your base naked stats? or from the overall stats u got with full equip?

the latter makes much more sense, is it a bug that will be fixed or was that really the intention of this set?

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Really fitting set piece name as I am in two minds whether to go for it or not haha

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13 hours ago, Agoraphobia said:

Unfortunately rng is not equally.

What this set does is increase the range of your att/dmg whatever you want to call it. It is rng on which part of the att spectrum your attack will choose.

So if you are having bad luck then your dps will decrease. If you're having good luck than your dps will increase. It is all RNG. 

 

Damage range example: 900-1000

 

-20% of 900 is - 180

+25% of 1000 is +250

Distribution curve has shifted by +70.

70/950 =7.3% damage increase.

Math!

P.S. That was the ideal. In reality since it scales of base damage the values are much lower. Still, it is a definite increase and anyone who says otherwise is using anecdotal evidence which has no place in a forum. Case closed.

 

Edit: also RNG evens out. Even if your fight results swing, over time the summation of all the results will show an increase. There is no point saying "It's all RNG" as in general people are discussing averages, not cherry picking results. For this reason, RNG is considered equal as it is not a weighted number generator.

 

Edited by Primaeva
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11 hours ago, Primaeva said:

 

Damage range example: 900-1000

 

-20% of 900 is - 180

+25% of 1000 is +250

Distribution curve has shifted by +70.

70/950 =7.3% damage increase.

Math!

P.S. That was the ideal. In reality since it scales of base damage the values are much lower. Still, it is a definite increase and anyone who says otherwise is using anecdotal evidence which has no place in a forum. Case closed.

 

Edit: also RNG evens out. Even if your fight results swing, over time the summation of all the results will show an increase. There is no point saying "It's all RNG" as in general people are discussing averages, not cherry picking results. For this reason, RNG is considered equal as it is not a weighted number generator.

 

 

I personally disagree with your opinion. That doesn't mean you're wrong. You make a valid opinion.

It really depends on which way you want to look at it. At the end of the day both opinions are correct. This set still increases your dmg range and  it is still luck as to which area of the att range you will hit.

Potentially it could be an increase on dps as if you're hitting the higher end of the spectrum on average you will fo more dmg.

I never told anyone not to use this set. I've said to test it on the dummies on another post about these. It is a personal choice and everyone should test before assuming or just accepting someone elses opinion. 

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31 minutes ago, Agoraphobia said:

 

I personally disagree with your opinion. That doesn't mean you're wrong. You make a valid opinion.

It really depends on which way you want to look at it. At the end of the day both opinions are correct. This set still increases your dmg range and  it is still luck as to which area of the att range you will hit.

Potentially it could be an increase on dps as if you're hitting the higher end of the spectrum on average you will fo more dmg.

I never told anyone not to use this set. I've said to test it on the dummies on another post about these. It is a personal choice and everyone should test before assuming or just accepting someone elses opinion. 


If you accept that the premise is people asking: On average, will it increase my damage, then the answer is always going to be "Yes, it does."

If your premise is actually people asking: "Will I see higher damage in all fights." Then the answer is no. But this logic is kind of flawed.

Think of it this way. I can increase my crit by 10% and also say - RNG is RNG, with 10% crit you may do less damage. But people are not looking for that answer - they want to know if it is a DPS improvement over the previous setup. 

What I posted above is not opinion, nor is it MY opinion. It's just math. If you disagree with what I posted, don't tell me you disagree with my opinion. You're disagreeing with math.

Edited by Primaeva

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43 minutes ago, thegreatestviz said:

but the question is will it increase healing also by appx~5% or just damage

In theory it should. As healing is scaled off m. Att

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@Primaeva

Well your maths is incorrect. RNG mean Random number generator which then means the number is chosen between the 850~1000 range. So saying that on average you will hit on the higher range is incorrect.

If your statement said "it has the potential to increase your dps" then yes you'd be right because it increases the range.

I'm really sorry but random has no average. But in saying that, yes the median of the range has increased by 5%. Doesn't mean you'll hit the middle more often. 

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@Agoraphobia and @Primaeva u are both right. 

 

Agora is taking about one string of event where the RNG is more prominent and could be any event of the higher limit and lower limit and Prima is talking about a summary of multiple event leading to one generic observation of increase in average.

 

Please don't quarrel over it. Even devs wont give a comment on this because the description is very straight forward. i feel like this has become a thread of elitistjerks :D

 

Cheers

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1 hour ago, Agoraphobia said:

@Primaeva

Well your maths is incorrect. RNG mean Random number generator which then means the number is chosen between the 850~1000 range. So saying that on average you will hit on the higher range is incorrect.

If your statement said "it has the potential to increase your dps" then yes you'd be right because it increases the range.

I'm really sorry but random has no average. But in saying that, yes the median of the range has increased by 5%. Doesn't mean you'll hit the middle more often. 

 

Stopped reading after "random has no average".

Case closed, I'm out of here.

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58 minutes ago, thegreatestviz said:

@Agoraphobia and @Primaeva u are both right. 

 

Agora is taking about one string of event where the RNG is more prominent and could be any event of the higher limit and lower limit and Prima is talking about a summary of multiple event leading to one generic observation of increase in average.

 

Please don't quarrel over it. Even devs wont give a comment on this because the description is very straight forward. i feel like this has become a thread of elitistjerks :D

 

Cheers

 

Thank god, someone who understands math.

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@Primaeva

I'd like to apologize.

I was reading up on the software RNG algorithm and seems it isn't actually random.

I used a random number generator and did multiple tests with excel calculation.

I took a range of 850 - 1000 (assuming dmg range) (median is 925)

Results of 1000 numbers generated

924.169 Average

Results of 10,000 numbers generated

925.2511 Average

Conclusion:

As @Primaeva has stated, Yes this set over time will increase your DPS.

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39 minutes ago, Agoraphobia said:

@Primaeva

I'd like to apologize.

I was reading up on the software RNG algorithm and seems it isn't actually random.

I used a random number generator and did multiple tests with excel calculation.

I took a range of 850 - 1000 (assuming dmg range) (median is 925)

Results of 1000 numbers generated

924.169 Average

Results of 10,000 numbers generated

925.2511 Average

Conclusion:

As @Primaeva has stated, Yes this set over time will increase your DPS.

No apology needed mate. Wow. That is a mad effort however, props to running the simulation :o I would never have done that level of testing.

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idk why u guys are doing your head in here.... if u take a large enough sample the averege atk power will inevitably be the mean (assuming u have flat distribution)

if u increase the top end by 25% and lower the bottom 20% the mean will move up at 2.5% very simple thats all, this set would increase your dps by 2.5% if it was working on your current stats, but since it works on BASE stats which are like 1/4 of the total stats the set actually adds 0.75% dmg on averege

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