Zipzo

We need to talk: auto-playing

22 posts in this topic

So I had written up a post prior to this one but it was removed because I was being a bit too mean, so this is my attempt to be more constructive about it.

In general I cannot say that I dislike the auto-play mechanic, as I have used it very frequently leveling up and completing trials/dailies etc. It's useful for it's purpose which is to basically automate a lot of the busy un-fun part of leveling which is "the grind", allowing you to look away and either multi-task or just sort of effortlessly go about your day while leveling. It's basically a bot that isn't illegal to use. One might wonder occasionally "If I don't have to pay any attention to do a thing, why even have it in the game", but in any case I'm not here to talk particularly about the existence of auto-play, but the flawed behavior it encourages later on in the game for higher level groups, pending your class/situation. I'm going to go over a few of the things I've experienced.

1. DPS path Warriors who spam chain on CD

I am mostly playing Gladiator so I notice this one most frequently. This is a multi-faceted issue because in some cases it's not even auto-play, sometimes the Warrior in question just thinks it's a good move or useful for grouping and doesn't realize he is completely flipping the bird to the actual tank, and potentially his entire group pending what disaster that could occur as a result of his use of the ability. However I would like to assume that most Warriors doing this are only doing it because their auto-bot makes them do it (I seriously hope). If not, then please, please, please, if you are not a Gladiator, remove chains from your skill bar. Please. There are better moves for DPS that don't require chains to take a spot on your skill bar.

2. Shepard Mystics who auto-play dungeons

This has so frequently led to wipes in the groups I've had...that I now role confirm and boot if the healer is not present. I *may* give a pass to a DPS on auto-play in a non-heroic dungeon, because a lot of times their resulting terrible DPS can be inconsequential to the completion of the fight so it isn't a big deal, but the healer leaving the auto-play to do all the work is not good enough. I have died to bosses several times, slowly, because the appointed group healer is auto-playing and simply just doesn't heal me in time or enough. Similar to point #1, if this is a case of the player and not the auto-bot, that's even worse but it's a different problem altogether.

3. Any class who auto-plays in heroic dungeons

I'm not going to say that these dungeons are that hard, but they aren't so easy that the auto-play can do them properly. Similarly to point #2, I now role confirm as a "ready check" and kick those on auto in heroic dungeons. The mechanics in heroic dungeons are often more meticulous than the auto-play is capable of managing, and it often results in these players just dying early in the pull, meaning a potential party wipe or an extremely long boss where wiping just makes more sense to do anyway and restart. Do not use auto-play in heroic dungeons. Do not do it. It's rude to your group to lock yourself in to a mediocre gameplay style that will die almost immediately on any boss, so don't be surprised if you get kicked. This brings me to my final point...

4. Auto-play is "bad-play"

I won't belabor the issue here, auto-play is basically "bad-play". The DPS is sub-optimal, and it doesn't follow fight mechanics. It doesn't even use the abilities as quickly as they are available, it is slow to use moves off CD. Essentially, if you are on auto-play, you are imitating a very sub-par below average player, maybe worse. This leads to a few things...

a. You make the group DPS lower

b. You (likely) die, making the group DPS much lower.

c. You are unable to abide by mechanics, making things tougher for the healer because of the resulting extra incoming damage.

You are essentially turning yourself in to a dead weight that makes it harder on everyone else. You are asking to be kicked. So I do. If I see a person on follow, I will role check, and if there's no confirmation in 5-10 seconds, they are gone and I will find someone who wants to be there.

 

So that's really it. Auto-play is useful for monotonous solo-activities like Trials, questing, dailies, and the like, it is not for subjecting your dungeon parties to a completely uncommunicative, mediocre player who is incapable of performing their role properly. Keep auto-play where it belongs. Don't use it in dungeons, unless of course you're being carried in some low level dungeon by higher levels, then by all means, do whatever you wish, but this is obviously not aimed at that situation.

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And then you realise less than 3% of the playerbase even visits these forums and they're probably decent players.

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Same could be said for any MMO forum, doesn't mean it isn't worth addressing.

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This is actually addressed very easily.

1. You auto-play but dps or heal is not a problem. No problem.

2. You auto-play and dps or heal is a problem. You usually get kicked. Problem solved.

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auto play is only a problem if the team lead doesnt know what he's doing.

eg. guild runs, inefficient ppl are removed, simple

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Autoplay is a great feature for daily quests umd easy dungeons, but i think it should be disabled in more important places like pvp or raids.

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I would actually like to see the auto play feature enhanced. Say your in a group hunt, and your attacking mobs. You are all set to auto play but you only attack what the leader attacks. This is generally pointless and devoid of being in a team. Why? Because usually the mob is killed by 1 shot from the leader and everyone is just there leeching EXP or, rep as they don't get a chance to do anything. There should be an "auto attack" button for those that are following that doesn't just attack what the leader does.

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I've found in my experience simply asking people to turn off autoplay will get a few more people to not do it. Lots of people who play this game do have experience with other MMOs so telling them that some raids and team raids are harder and  really shouldn't be autoplayed (okay, maybe the trash mobs) will go a long way in helping everyone as a community. 

We do know that there are suggestions for improvement and we're looking at many of them as well as discussing others. I don't really have anything to add at the moment, but do know that we're aware of it.

As for the DPS Warriors using Chains on auto and pulling aggro- I know there's a suggestion that's been floated to take off the aggro component of the chains. Do you all have any other suggestions on how to make the skill still viable for all Warrior Paths?

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If agro was taken off chains for mobs, then how would a tank create agro without directly doing themost DPS, thus making him have to out DPS a ranger making the ranger yet again, a pointless class if a person with much higher DEF, HP and ultimately ATK is there to choose from?

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Auto-Play can actually be superior to manual play sometimes. E.g. Shepard Mystics will find the AI does a far better job of dealing with complex multi heals then trying to strugle with the clunky AI. So long as they occasionally intervene manually to manouver out of the way of harm, this is a superior way to play than full manual. The other classes have similar situations. You just need to learn how to distinguish between which players that leverage the AI to their advantage and which ones rely on it to do everything (which of course, it doesn't).

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2 hours ago, HiddenAgenda said:

If agro was taken off chains for mobs, then how would a tank create agro without directly doing themost DPS, thus making him have to out DPS a ranger making the ranger yet again, a pointless class if a person with much higher DEF, HP and ultimately ATK is there to choose from?

 

Sorry I meant to say that when a non Gladiator Path warrior uses chains it will not taunt. But Gladiator Path warrior's chains retain the taunt ability.

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52 minutes ago, RedPanda said:

 

Sorry I meant to say that when a non Gladiator Path warrior uses chains it will not taunt. But Gladiator Path warrior's chains retain the taunt ability.

 

non glad warriors will still need to tank, maybe have a preferential / taunt efficiency?

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, RedPanda said:

 

Sorry I meant to say that when a non Gladiator Path warrior uses chains it will not taunt. But Gladiator Path warrior's chains retain the taunt ability.

 

that might be a good idea, so only the "tank" path would create agro, non tank chains just pulls the mob in, but if say, chains are used on a boss, it wouldnt pull the boss because agro is retained by the tank?

Edited by HiddenAgenda

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38 minutes ago, HiddenAgenda said:

 

that might be a good idea, so only the "tank" path would create agro, non tank chains just pulls the mob in, but if say, chains are used on a boss, it wouldnt pull the boss because agro is retained by the tank?

 

i dont see this being a good idea, would basically destroy the potential for any dps tanks

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1 hour ago, Sai said:

 

i dont see this being a good idea, would basically destroy the potential for any dps tanks

Does the community actively even need these?

Executioner and Fang Warriors are unfit to tank heroic content without baller-ass healers. Otherwise they have no business bothering to sign up as a tank. I don't see the destruction of "dps tanks" as some kind of negative.

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Hero Fort group *goes on follow* dps close to 9k.

thanx for loots ^.^

The auto mode is a function that suits the grind of this game. I think it's good where it's at and honestly mmo games are designed to bring friends along or invite strangers and get to know each other so you can make a good core group of people to go raiding. THIS IS NO EASY TASK. 

Once you get a good group going though you won't even remember the times You got frustrated trying to clear goblint run like I experienced back in April/may with auto followers. 

Its all I can say to help you get a better gaming experience, find the right people you enjoy playing with. I've continued to play this game because of some of the cool and awesome people I've met on COL.

Hope you can find them too 

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1 hour ago, Zipzo said:

Does the community actively even need these?

Executioner and Fang Warriors are unfit to tank heroic content without baller-ass healers. Otherwise they have no business bothering to sign up as a tank. I don't see the destruction of "dps tanks" as some kind of negative.

 

considering let's say elemental lords requires a high level fang or exec... yes, yes we need them

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Why not remove the taunt from chains completely, and reconfigure Gladiator Heart a little and give it an AoE taunt

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I like the idea of putting the taunt somewhere more obvious and letting chains be more of a utility move but again it still opens up the potential for DPS Warriors to troll tanks with it by messing up positioning of mobs/bosses.

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15 hours ago, Sai said:

 

considering let's say elemental lords requires a high level fang or exec... yes, yes we need them

So why is it exactly they need to be able to tank them?

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9 hours ago, Helo said:

Why not remove the taunt from chains completely, and reconfigure Gladiator Heart a little and give it an AoE taunt

 

The issue with AoE taunt is some riads, for eg 2nd boss of ash fort, requires 2 tanks to split the boss and adds. If the glad was to have an aoe taunt they may take the aggro of the wrong mob.

I think the idea situation would be to remove any exe or glad that uses chains during a raid. This is what i do and have no issue kicking for this.

It is basic common knowledge that if a proper tank is available you brain cell lacking executioners can remove chains and allow the tank to do their job.

Either that or i just leave the team.  simples.

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1 hour ago, Zipzo said:

So why is it exactly they need to be able to tank them?

 

reason is that at higher end elemental leaders full dps is required buy both tank and healer.

So usually a healer would also dps. 

But tbh this is only once players are just strong enough to do so. It was like this when torture was first scraped into, not we can do it with 3 dps 1 tank 1 healer fairly easily.

Now that players are strong enough for Nightmare it has come to that same situation.

So unfortunately tanks get left behind as our dps is fairly low.

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